You drag Eughbert out into the street...

[Jackson 5]

but see a lot of our more horrible things we did as a nation (that you couldn't justify AT ALL) happened so long ago we don't really feel any personal connection to it. On top of that A LOT of Americans genology only goes back to late 1800's early 1900's. So besides the bit of native American blood in me (which practically everyone in America claims to have lol) my ancestory doesn't date back to more then 100 years at the most. Its funny because in a way out culture is a 180 of say.... the middle east culture were as things that happened a thousand years ago are still almost treated as fresh in their minds. Take for example the huge uproar over the movie 300.

(my fathers side dates to about the early 1900s were they were all German immigrants and untill probably the 1940's 50's German was spoken exclusively when at the home)

[bunny]

Dec 6, 2012 14:51:21 GMT -5 eughbert said:

Being particularly nasty here for a moment - perhaps you can get a glimmer of that in a game of cowboys and indians ...
... when the day at school comes to your mind where they taught you about this thing called "trail of tears".

Nope. you're not being nasty, Eggie. That "Trail of Tears" was, though.

[eughbert]

Yeah, seems indeed like a difference in the sense of time ... when I think of "ancient history", it would be the time, the romans first crossed borders into our territory (damn imperialist bastards and their superior plumbimg technology).
So, in a way, our share of genocide was done practically yesterday and by practically the same people who run around now.

(And here I thought, all you people can be tracked back to the Mayflower-passengers in a convoluted and very incestuous familiy tree ... ;D )

[bunny]

Dec 6, 2012 17:21:30 GMT -5 eughbert said:

Yeah, seems indeed like a difference in the sense of time ... when I think of "ancient history", it would be the time, the romans first crossed borders into our territory (damn imperialist bastards and their superior plumbimg technology).
So, in a way, our share of genocide was done practically yesterday and by practically the same people who run around now.

Yeah, when you first mentioned the Trail of Tears, I also thought about another "trail" in history. It was named the "Trail of Blood" -- it was the persecution of Baptists. So it wasn't just the Jews or the Catholics, or Protestants in general, but also included Baptists specifically.

(And here I thought, all you people can be tracked back to the Mayflower-passengers in a convoluted and very incestuous familiy tree ... ;D )

Nope, you're not wrong there either, Eggie. There were 102 pilgrims that landed on the Mayflower in 1602. According to a PBS series we've been watching about the history of the United States, today 30,000,000 people are direct descendants of just FIFTY (50) of those 102 pilgrims! Sure, we're talking about 400 years since the Mayflower landed but still.... that's a whole lot of in-breeding!

[Jackson 5]

I think i saw somewhere where all mankind (or maybe just non-Africans) are derived from just 12 individuals.

[bunny]

Dec 6, 2012 20:29:43 GMT -5 Jackson 5 said:

I think i saw somewhere where all mankind (or maybe just non-Africans) are derived from just 12 individuals.

I don't know about that but around 70,000 years ago there was some massive extinction event that wiped out all but about 100,000 15,000 hoomanz. I can't remember exactly what it was -- it might have been one of those Krakatau is believed to have been caused by a Toba supervalcano eruption -- but anthropologists referred to it as a "bottleneck" in terms of hooman population. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck

*I corrected my post after looking this subject up on the interwebz. I remember studying this incident in one of my geology classes at UT during my undergrad and I just wanted to make sure my facts were correct.*

A couple of months ago I heard a funny thing about evolution, in general. Blue eyes are a mutation that first occurred only about 10,000 years ago. And apparently that mutation is already dying out (or being breed out!) because fewer people these days are being born with blue eyes.

I always thought I was special. Now I can prove it through genetics! *bats baby blue eyes*

[Jackson 5]

lol. Blue eyes like blonde and red hair are recessive genes. In order to have blue eyes both your parents had to have carried that gene. Now, they could have brown eyes, but they still carried it (from grandparents). Meaning you got two of the recessive genes. So think of it as your like a 1 out of 16 chance at most (i think if i did my math right...). So you will pass it on to your kid, BUT if your hubby does not posses the recessive gene (lets say he has brown eyes and both his parents did as well) then the child will have brown. Its just math that the dice will eventually roll enough times that that recessive gene will lose out in the long run.

I remember that when we learned this in biology we all immediately went around the room checking to see if any of use could figure out if we were adopted and just never told about it lol.

[glow=red,2,300]
***EDIT***[/glow]

SO for example your husband has brown eyes.
You have a child that has your blue eye gene and his brown eye gene (the child has brown eyes).
That child then goes on and has offspring with with a Brown eye person with no recessive gene at all. Meaning all their kids will NOT have blue eyes. And thats how quickly that gene can die out here.

[bunny]

Dec 6, 2012 21:47:21 GMT -5 Jackson 5 said:

I remember that when we learned this in biology we all immediately went around the room checking to see if any of use could figure out if we were adopted and just never told about it lol.

ZOMG!!! Give a kid a little science and watch how quickly they try to prove they couldn't possibly have come from those two nerds calling themselves their "parents"!

[Jackson 5]

lol yeah. No one matched up, but our teacher told us a story about a student who did. Cant remember if it was one of her students or not.

[eughbert]

"Bottleneck event" refers to the emigration from Africa our ancestors did ... but only a few of them. The people of Africa are indeed genetically more diverse from each other than from the people of the rest of the world, for we are all descendandts of a few, curious groups.
But not just 12. That would be to small a number to sustain stabile population growth.

[bunny]

No, Eggie, I think you misunderstood what that article I posted said when it referred to the number 12. And I quote (or copy and paste):

"Wisent, also called European bison (Bison bonasus), faced extinction in the early 20th century. The animals living today are all descended from 12 individuals and they have extremely low genetic variation, which may be beginning to affect the reproductive ability of bulls (Luenser et al., 2005). The population of American bison (Bison bison) fell due to overhunting, nearly leading to extinction around the year 1890, though it has since begun to recover (see table)."

But as far as the term "bottleneck" goes, that is just a term used to describe a phenomenon, not a specific event in and of itself. The emigration from Africa is one example of a bottleneck event, not "THE" bottleneck event. Loosely speaking, some scientists have even posited that the Plague during the 1400s was a kind of mini-bottleneck event. However, since none of my degrees are in areas like epidemiology or anthropology, that's about as far as I prepared to go on that subject.

[Admin]

I like "Eggie" better then E. Very cute! ;D

Please excuse me for my absence and slight thread derailment.

Prior to Germany being formed in the 1870s, the area was a bunch of principalities belonging to the Holy Roman Empire, which was an empire in name only.

The principalities were about 2/3rds Protestants, 1/3 Catholics and subjected to the political meddlings of the nations of Europe for several hundred years.

I probably would of stayed in W.Germany if it wasn't stuck in the middle of Europe!

Hey Eggie! Story time!!! I have a wild boar stuffed doll that's a year older then you! The tag says made in West Germany. I got it in honor of my close encounter with a European wild boar mama.

Back in '85, (before you were born ;D ) my tank threw a track on a side of a ridge. My company left us there, so we were alone in a dark forest. SOP was no one dismounted from the tank at night cause of the boars. That night I was standing on the back deck watering some plants when a mama boar came by with a couple of babies following her. I sensed her more then saw her but she was big! Her babies were squeaking as they walked by. Mama musta sensed me and did a snort. They shut up after that. So did I!

Good times!

[Jackson 5]

OK, after digging some more ill clarify what i think i was saying lol. It seems that as little as 150-1000 people migrated out of east Africa into the middle east. PERHAPS i was thinking European descendants which mitochondrial DNA has tracked back to between 10-12 "mothers" of the current population, OR 10-12 common ancestors.

[eughbert]

Now I am pet-y-fied ... oh boys.
Yeah, I see what you mean, oh little girl. Heard of the term "bottleneck" only in relation to the african emigration. Hmm .... multiple degrees? Please tell me, one of them is medicinal, specialisation surgical neurology. That would be sooo appropriate.

Ah, doc, if you had such a close encounter with one of our wild sows, consider yourself lucky to be alive. Pig would've shredded through your american tank armor like through paper.

And to use my few academic merits for a change ... your description is accurate, although not entirely correct. The Holy Roman empire of german nation (which was none of these things) was in decline since the days of the 30-years war (and was even officialy disbanded in the napoleonic wars), but a major contribution to the recess came also from the ambitions of the two freat powers in the empire (prussia and austria) to build up their power-base at the cost of the empire at whole.
Also the fact that the permanent council of the nations and representatives of the higher classes, the imperial day, was unable to make a single useful decision.

[bunny]

Dec 8, 2012 3:56:50 GMT -5 eughbert said:

Now I am pet-y-fied ... oh boys.
Yeah, I see what you mean, oh little girl. Heard of the term "bottleneck" only in relation to the african emigration. Hmm .... multiple degrees? Please tell me, one of them is medicinal, specialisation surgical neurology. That would be sooo appropriate.

Oh no. Yuck. Not even close.

Although..... I have handled several BRA!NZ! and what I used to do is used in those fields.

And don't ask! I'm not helping you with any homework.